Category Archives: Roundtable of Death

Hey, How Are We Criticizing the Ottawa Senators These Days and Further Can We?

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You know, just your average situation where you have kind of a whatevs AHL career and then you become a possession animal and the backbone of an NHL club....

You know, just your average situation where you have kind of a whatevs AHL career and then you become a possession animal and the backbone of an NHL club….

JAMES SAYS: 

Hey, Varada *holds for 2 full minutes of applause* I don’t know if you noticed but this season has been an absolute whirl of wind for the team that we like, the Ottawa Senators (.com). Heh heh heh ahhhh…just…sharing the laughter and love, you know? And by laughter and love I mean, I actually found myself getting a warm feeling deep inside when I read a tweet from Wayne Scanlan saying how Erik Karlsson was seen limping around SBP with TWO shoes on instead of one shoe and one cast. I caught myself feeling so happy that I immediately took a personal inventory in an attempt to find out what personal void I am filling with all this hockey stu—I mean, I was regular, emotionally stable person amount of happy…moving forward…

What I’m saying is the NHL season just to start with on paper is upside down. 40 odd games, something like 60 points and you’re in the playoffs, day is night and vegetables are poison.

Factor in the Sens and it gets no less weird. Let’s do a quick test, which of these things made you more excited as a fan this season: That Ottawa went on a perfect five game homestand or the news that Craig Anderson’s ankle injury wasn’t as severe as it first appeared? Jakob Silfverberg going 3 for 3 in his first 3 shootout attempts or news that Jason Spezza’s return could be as few as 2 to 3 weeks from now? I’d compare something to hearing word that Erik Karlsson will make a full recovery from his injury but I know how we all feel about that one.

The point I’m trying to make is, as last year was defined greatly by the career years a healthy line up helped afford, this year is defined by the injuries that have clouded what expectations for a team like this should be.

Up until recently Ottawa has had rookie Eric Gryba playing on the top defensive pairing. I know right? That prospect so hyped that he was called up after Beniot, Wiercioch and Borowiecki had all been given a shot. I’m not trying to put Gyba down here I’m just trying to illustrate how when you look up the team’s player stats and  see that Gryba’s got the second lowest plus/minus rating on the team (-5) it’s hard not to react like, “Yeah, well they are playing Eric Gryba for over 20 minutes a game so…”

Watching a team’s top line blow a guy who at this point has 12 NHL games under his belt doesn’t make me angry as a fan so much as the fact that that situation is even happening illuminates how deep over their head the team is in it this year.

Although icing a 3rd of a lineup made up of rookies is pretty unprecedented for this club it’s not that simple when it comes to judging it though. It’s not like this team doesn’t have its share of experienced NHLers making up the other two thirds of the line up.
Where do you fall on this whole thing? Are you a “Go easy on Turris, he’s playing in a role he’s not ready and/or cut out for” kind of guy or “Bro you didn’t score a goal for like 2 goddamn months, I’ve had it with you!”  kind of guy? Let’s talk: Are you throwing the patio furniture you call a living room through the window when the Sens cant muster a goal on the powerplay or are you just blown away that its almost mid-March and they are not in last place / actually in the hunt?

VARADA SAYS: 

Well, anyway I cut it, I can’t be disappointed with the 2013 Ottawa Senators (RIP fall 2012, which never happened in my books). You know how much more money the Philadelphia Flyers are spending on players right now when you take into account Spezza, Karlsson, Anderson and Michalek injuries? Almost FORTY MILLION DOLLARS. That’s a whole other low budget hockey team. That’s the equivalent of taking Ottawa and then saying, “here’s St. Louis, think you could use them?” It’s not only making me so proud of this team’s work ethic (how crushed would you or I have been to have lost the way they lost against Toronto last week? Not these guys. Up and at them), it’s making me rethink my whole attitude toward player motivation and development.

I know that Eric Condra and Colin Greening will never be 35 goal guys. How much does a 35 goal guy cost you? $4MM-$5MM? How much does Greening cost? A bag of potatoes (that can’t be sent down to the AHL)? Each of these guys is playing like they know the next game could be their last. Why on earth would someone like, say, Dallas, trade for Eric Cole for “stability” when you could have hungry, hard working kids play their hearts out for you night in and night out?
Which, don’t get me wrong, doesn’t mean they aren’t infuriating. We need to get bailed out every single night by a goaltender, and we’re basically one Steve Mason away from being Columbus. (Maybe more to the point: Bobrovsky plays lights out, Columbus starts looking like a real hockey team for the first team maybe every? Philly looks terrible and is going to miss the playoffs?) In any case, here’s a list of disappointments that I feel like I can’t complain about for all of the reasons above but here goes anyway:
1) Alfredsson has really lost of step. I don’t mean “he’s sluggish because he’s played 48 minutes tonight, all on the penalty kill” step-loss. Like, boneheaded giveaways, terrible passing, 0/5 on the shootout step-loss. It’s weird to see: humbling, existential even. TIME RAVAGES US ALL. (Still one of our best players, btw.)
2) Regin may not, actually, be an NHL player. There, I said it. Nice guy, strong on the puck, but officially cursed. I feel like every team in the league might think he could be an NHL player in the ideal situation, but there is literally no team in the league that wants a guy who isn’t quite skilled enough to be top six and isn’t quite rough enough to be bottom six.
3) I accept that there are pretty much no options after Turris (Z. Smith?) so what are you gonna do: NOT play him as your top line center? But you’ve gotta think this organization is really high on Turris to basically hand him the season in his second year as a Senator. I also wonder if Kyle “Phoenix-didn’t-give-me-playing-time” Turris is now Kyle “HOLY SHIT STOP KILLING ME” Turris. Pretty amazing that he’s not a minus player this year.
4) A running joke between you and I for a few years now has been “Who is the new Antoine Vermette?”, meaning, a guy who pulls off about twelve sick, amazing moves on his way to the net–all predicated on hard work and just fucking going for it–finds himself wide open with the goalie sprawling out of position, and then fans on the shot. It was Foligno for a while. The 2013 edition? Literally every single forward on this team. OTTAWA IS LEADING THE LEAGUE IN SHOTS PER GAME. (also second worst in the league in shots against, ahem.)
JAMES RUDELY CUTS IN: 
I think what might be most surprising to me with this whole thing is how the media are not climbing over each other to try to bask in the glory of Paul MacLean’s moustache. I know I really harp on how Ottawa is one of the most fronted on teams but aside from the odd 20 second video entitled something like “Gitt’n-R-Done” on TSN’s website, I find MacLean’s amazing coaching was actually more of a discussion last year. I’m not saying the media needs to talk about this more, the second thing I harp about endlessly is how I like the Sens in the underdog role. I dont know if you all remember but the high expectations Sens teams of the past…not exactly great under pressure back in those days. Anyway, I’m just saying, if it were all kinds of other teams doing what Ottawa is doing they would be all over it. But in the mean time congratulations go out to Bruce Boudreau for somehow managing to get Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry and Bobby Ryan to play well. Remarkable!

Should Ottawa Make a Play for My Favorite Character on HBO’s Oz?

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ryan_o_reily

Varada and James have a brief friendly chat about the prospect of Ottawa getting their disgusting little mitts on contract holdout Ryan O’Reilly. Come away with us!

Varada says:
I know I wrote just the other day that I don’t think Ottawa should trade for anyone, but then I didn’t think a guy like O’Reilly was available. When I think about “replacing Spezza,” I guess I was thinking of going after a similar guy–veteran, in his prime, high-priced–and that’s not who I think Ottawa should be going after. O’Reilly, on the other hand, fits the rebuild pretty damn well. He’s a centerman, 22, shoots left, and has already pretty much proven himself in the NHL. Much like last year’s Kyle Turris trade, this seems like a great fit.

TSN reported that Colorado would look for a roster player and a top prospect in return. In terms of top prospects, Ottawa has plenty to spare, especially if they’re bringing in a center. While I wouldn’t really want to part with Zibanejad or Stone, I wonder if the Avs could be swayed by Noesen, Puempel, or even Ceci. It’s the “roster player” part where I get stuck. Who on Ottawa’s roster could you see the team parting with? Da Costa? It’s not like they’re going to trade for Phillips or Gonchar.
James says: 
Interesting as O’Reilly crossed my mind in the last thread but my opinion differs on acquiring him in the spirit of the rebuild. As you pointed out, this would be similar to the Kyle Turris trade but for me Ottawa already made this trade when they acquired Turris. Though I do quite like O’Reilly’s age, I think that the acquisition of this player has to be the long term kind (hence the contract holdout). I’m not sure if Spezza needs to be replaced like this quite just yet. Yes, he is 29 years old but I simply dont think the rebuild will take so long that he will no longer be relevant as player by the time Ottawa finds itself in the “contender” conversation. I recognize that I am an almost frustrating defender of Spezza but it’s simply because I firmly believe that Spezza’s skill set is rare like Mr. Clean with hair. O’Reilly is a very good player and his career best 55 points in 81 games last season is good. Kyle Turris good. Spezza has 621 points in 611 NHL games as well as 51 points in 53 playoff games. Is he a perfect player? No but that kind of production is something I don’t see the need to give away injuries problems and all. If, say, by the time Ottawa starts becoming a contender if Spezza is no longer a first line caliber centreman, that’s a pretty dynamite 2nd line pivot to have much like how Alfredsson is still a pretty fantastic 2nd line player even at age 40. The Sens have been an organization that values career players and I think that Spezza should be one as he has certainly delivered on his pedigree for 9 seasons now. Keep Spezza and I think he’ll give the team 1000 points eventually. Turris will likely be that important 55-60 per year guy.

Further the fact that Colorado wants a top prospect for O’Reilly is proof to me that the Av’s are willing to gamble that O’Reilly can be replaced by a top prospect. Maybe I’m a conservative with this but i think if Spezza is replaced it’s by a marquee FA of comparable quality that you have to pay through the nose for (IE Some other team’s Jason Spezza). That or…this is all a bunch of media hype and it just gets worked out between the two sides a la PK Subban was our generation’s Ryan O’Reilly.
I’m like a broken record with this but take into consideration all the bitching that went down / kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind of still goes down about giving up David Rundblad and a second for Kyle Turris. I dont think a week goes by without someone talking about him in a Sens blog (that isnt ours) comment section or on twitter or something. Turris has stepped right into the top 6 and played well and people still talk about Rundblad like he’s the one who got away. There’s little doubt that Rundblad will be a good player and we got one in return which is great. As Sens fans we know how much it sucks when it doesn’t work out. Where iz you going with this one James? We’ll put simply, I dont see the need to give up a roster player AND a prospect to be able to give Ryan O’Reilly his next contract as I think with the wealth of prospects that the organization currently holds we will soon discover we have our own O”Reilly that we had to surrender nothing beyond what we’ve already surrendered for the pick in the first place (Mike Fisher, Chris Kelly). I’m a quantity man when it comes to drafting and I think that’s something Ottawa should hang onto. It’s the Jason Spezzas of the world that are so hard to find so dont give them up when you dont have to.

 

Roundtable of Death: “We’re Alive! We’re Ali…(gunshot)” edition

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TOD

 

Varada

It’s Friday, which means work isn’t going to get much out of me today. What, I work in health care, it’s not important.

So what should we talk about? How about Ottawa’s defense? Are you a fan of going out and signing, say, a Chris Campoli on the cheap, or are you excited to see what these young Binghamton Boys can do?

I looked at the UFAs, and there aren’t really any I’m interested in beyond Campoli, who is still young and we know can play 15 minutes a night. The problem is that with Cowen out we don’t really need depth, we need a top pairing guy, and there isn’t really one of those available. Also remember that Ottawa traded it’s second round pick this year for Ben Bishop, which means that if we’re getting into trading for a defenseman it will be the kind you can get with a later pick (meaning probably not as good as Campoli) or the kind you have to give up a first rounder or a prospect for, which isn’t preferable. This team shouldn’t really be in a “going for it” mentality, but should be patient.

I’ve written on the blog about how if there’s a season where Ottawa sort of stinks it up, I don’t mind it being this one considering it’s shortened and next year’s draft is deep. Maybe it also puts Ottawa in a selling mood and we get some picks for expiring contracts like Gonchar, Regin, maybe Latendresse if he has a decent season. I won’t say Alfie because I know how people will react…but Alfie so he can win a goddamned cup already. I’m not saying let’s go out and tank on purpose, just that if the capricious gods are going to be total dicks, then this is the year I’d like to cash that in. In which case, I’m all for giving the youngins some development time in the NHL. They’re tearing up the A, some of them already have a championship in that league; I think it would be valuable to give them some NHL time against the big boys, let them get acclimatized while expectations are lower.

Another thing we could talk about: holy bejeezus take a look at next season’s UFAs. I’m so excited for this. No longer do we have crazy 15 year deals being handed out – every team with the cap space can basically offer the same “league max” deal of 7 years and the maximum salary, and it’s up to the players to go where they want. They can’t all live in New York, which means they start looking at who is up and coming, and that’s us. I scrolled about halfway down the page and was still finding guys that I would love to see on our team. If Alfie retires, Ottawa isn’t going to have any trouble finding a high-end forward to take his place (though no one can take his place).

James

I agree that outside an offer sheet for PK Subban or Michael Del Zotto *uses Canadarm to make appropriate sized hand wanking motion* there’s no one available out there who’d really make the D corps drastically better. An offer sheet seems totally out of the question for the sole reason of what are you realistically going to offer Subban or Del Zotto that MTL or NY wont match? These guys aren’t Shea Weber go-all-in guys. You’d basically just waste time helping another team write the contract for them. I’ve checked that list of UFA’s twice now (RESEARCH). I suppose I wouldn’t think it was a grievous error to toss your Foster or Campoli type guy a 1-year contract bone as, hey, they can play some NHL minutes but Ottawa’s admittedly weak and Cowen-less D keeps bringing me back to one question: Are we rebuilding or are we rebuilding?

This Mike Lundin injury is not like Cowen’s: a broken finger is a few weeks out I’d estimate. He’ll be back in a month probably. I’m not saying he’s the saviour by any means but he’s a signed NHL player is he not? I for one am in favour of giving Borowiecki and Wiercioch a try. Gamble? Definitely. Who the hell is going to flat out guarantee that two guys who’ve played 10 NHL games (which is more than a fifth of the season this year!) wont look out of place? But to me they aren’t the craziest options either. Wiercioch is in his 3rd year in Bingo and playing great. Borowiecki, or Bonerweicki if you hear Tim Murray talk about him, is also in his 3rd campaign. He was also an AHL all star last year which is quite an accomplishment when you’re a shut down D man. Paul MacLean said something that mirrors my thinking the other day, that yes, they are inexperienced but everyone has to start their NHL career at some point. Amen Pappy. Given the circumstances, I’ve been looking at it like, “Yeah, the Sens D is a little fucked this year.” It will be interesting to see this play out given that the topic du jour is that Ottawa’s goaltending is the team’s biggest strength. Tenders will be put to the test especially if there’s two Binghamton boys in the mix. If you’ve been following the BSens you know that they have been outshot nearly every game…even when they win.

One plausible and interesting trade idea that Silver Sevens’ Peter Raaymakers (WHO I MET A GUY WHO MET HIM ONCE) brought up with me via an autograph he was faxing me was potentially trading Sergei Gonchar to Evegeniburgh Malkguins for the Right Honourable Paul Martin. Martin’s game would probably be more useful to the Sens this year then Gonchar’s but do the two years he has left on his contract muck up the rebuild once Cowen does come back? Since no one out there improves the D short term I say take the loss and try out some Baby Sens.

I’ve already gone on the record (IMPORTANT) in saying that I don’t think this is a playoff team this year. I’m not going to pretend I know jack shit about this years draft being deep or shallow but a high pick is a high pick and is always a bonus in a rough year in the standings. I expect this team to still be a high scoring team with a porous defence and improved goaltending with Bishop. Could go either way.

To address your point about the UFA list for this summer I think it looks pretty good. I don’t know if I’m quite as happy in the pants about it as you though I am for sure super hyped on Corey Perry being potentially available. The 2014 crop looks really scrumtralecent. According to Capgeek.tv the Senators will have $35, 580, 833 in cap space so my advice would continue being patient and offer Malkin $35, 580, 833* for seven years.

*It’s funny because that’s an actual yearly salary for a player in other sports, in fact this kind of payday WHICH IS PART OF A FUCKING JOKE BY THE WAY, would barely put him in the top 15 highest paid athletes. The more you knowish.